The Meeting Between AL-Sayed Muqtada AL-Sader AndThe Journalist Patrick Cockburn from The British Independent Newspaper In 19-11-2013‏

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[align=center] -Patrick: that is fine. Would you like to record this meeting?
[/align][align=center] Al-Sayed Muqtada: ok, I wait this meeting and I am happy to meet journalist, writer and scholar person, like you. You are good person. Although I isolated the policy, but I'll answer all political questions with magnanimity.
-Patrick: That's very kind of you.
Al-Sayed Muqtada: in the fact, the status of Iraq is very bad in all levels. The worst levels are democracy, security and human right. But I can say there is a hope at the end of tunnel that reach to the desired goal by efforts of honest and good people inside government outside who want to guide Iraq to security.
-Patrick: from other side, why there is increasing in violence and killing? And why does the government fail to prevent the violence?
Al-Sayed Muqtada: failure of government was one of reasons that lead to deterioration of security, explosions and killing. In addition to the external factors and sectarian factors absence of security and public struggle participated too. And another thing I said before and saying it now, the exclusion of others and there is no paternal government behave, like father lead to its failure.
-Patrick: will the other government do better than the current government?
Al-Sayed Muqtada: if actual and democratic government comes and is behaved fatherly. And we try to prevent the coming of government behave, like this government.
-Patrick: I am asking about your standing against sectarianism in your statements, how did it make you lose supporting among your supporters?
Al-Sayed Muqtada: the reasons that made me stood against sectarianism that I find the most difficult thing that disintegrates people is sectarianism. Iraq faced many problems; the most difficult one is sectarianism. I feel it's, real danger. It will disintegrate the Iraqi people and its government will disintegrate and will be easily for external powers to control the country.
I had said before, I don't fear political sectarianism but I worry about sectarian effect at public level. It will be difficult to fight. My standing against sectarianism has made me lose the support of some my followers. Because some of them have sectarian thinking and they tend to follow sectarian politics too.
-Patrick: it seems from you speech, there is no enough time to fight the sectarianism and overcome it.
Al-Sayed Muqtada: no, there is a time and there is a hope in all our action specially in fighting sectarianism.
Although the way is very long and there are difficulties in the beginning, ultimately the right is won.
Also I am worried about some of politics that participate in spreading of sectarianism in order to fix their chair and posts.
-Patrick: how far did the government participate in deepening the sectarian feeling? And do you think that the government enables to respond the demand of demonstrators?
Al-Sayed Muqtada: I support the responding of the demand of demonstrators as soon as possible, and I think that the time of responding for their requests has passed when the shiitic Government 'in their view' didn’t execute their requests, the sectarianism was inflamed
-Patrick: So, what can we do in this affair, now?
Al-Sayed Muqtada: In this affair from the political side, there must be a paternal Government takes care of its people equally and care of them more than it's care of the posts; it must live the suffering of its people, not an external Government.
-Patrick: You said ' not an external Government (exterior of Iraq) "for which degree that the present Government is exterior of Iraq?
Al-Sayed Muqtada: No it's not from exterior of Iraq now, but in the past, it was exterior the limits, maybe it doesn’t feel or know what people of Iraq want.
-Patrick: there are disagreements in Iraq between AL-Shia and AL-Sunnis and between Kurds and Arabs, so how can people of Iraq be as one nation?
Al-Sayed Muqtada: All the denominations (AL-Sunnis, AL-Shia, and Kurds…etc.) have to feel that Iraq is for them and the wealths are for them and they aren’t oppressed and no one deprive them from their rights, their polity and their services.
-Patrick: for which degree that Nouri AL-Maliki is responsible for situation in Iraq in this Government?
Al-Sayed Muqtada: He has the greatest role in these situations, perhaps Nouri AL-Maliki is the most important person who should undertake solving the problem of Iraq, but he isn’t the only person.
-Patrick: Do you think that he will get a third reign?
Al-Sayed Muqtada: as an expectation, yes I expect that he will get a third reign, but I don’t want it.
-Patrick: You helped or supported the others to become premiers of Iraq, why there is a failure in removing the present premier?
Al-Sayed Muqtada: The external support, especially America and Iranian support, this is a strange thing that America and Iran support the same person.
The meeting in Arbil which I and all sects of nation met there (Kurds, Sunnis, and Shia) in order to remove him from the rule, but the external support refused.
AL-Maliki is strong by America, Britain, and Iran.
-Patrick: do you think that Iraq could have a successful leader, because the leader of Iraq must get support from America, Iran, and Britain.
Al-Sayed Muqtada: I don’t agree with you that the leader, who can be strong and face the difficulties, must get support from Iraq and Iran.
-Patrick: is this will be satisfactory?
Al-Sayed Muqtada: yes, this will be satisfactory, if the leader is close to his people and if his people support him from inside, he will be strong by his people not by Iran or America.
-Patrick: why the Iraqi Government is unable to do any achievement and it has a lot of corruption?
Al-Sayed Muqtada: I will repeat the answer , because it's not a paternal Government , it doesn’t want to serve its people , but it wants to serve itself and its posts , they are racing to take the piece from the cake as their racing for posts , more than their racing to serve their people or their requests , maybe because they were not poor in reign of Saddam or in other times , Islam says that any person should fortify himself ,his heart ,and his mind before taking a position in the Government .
-Patrick: what is your relation with the highest Islamic council with Ammar al-Hakim in these days?
Al-Sayed Muqtada: it is a good relationship, and we are partners and friends and we hope to develop it more and more.
-Patrick: you said that you isolated from the policy, and then you returned to the policy, what is the explanation?
Al-Sayed Muqtada: I didn’t return to the policy, my isolation was only politically, not generally, this should be clear and I didn’t return to the policy until now, but I returned to serve the people and execute their requests, leaving the people in this ordeal, especially in these days whereas they are suffering from security ordeal and they don’t have services.
So, leaving them at this time is unacceptable.
-Patrick: will you return to your religious study in Qom, or not?
Al-Sayed Muqtada: if the situations allow, I will return.
-Patrick: How would you advise Iraqi Shia who are suffering from explosions, and killing, what is your advice for them to behave, is it enough that you advise them to be patient and enduring?
Al-Sayed Muqtada: they have to understand that AL-Sunnis don’t target them ,but the occupation and external parties target them , if they want to revenge from what happen to them , they must revenge from the occupation ; in my opinion ,America is the main reason of in flaming the sectarianism and The deterioration of the security situation in Iraq.
-Patrick: Do you mean actions of America when it had occupied Iraq previously?
Al-Sayed Muqtada: Its consequences is remaining even now ,we are suffering from results of the American occupation, whether this occupation or the previous attack or other results ,not only on the security level but on the Intellectual, the public ,and the service level; all these struggles changed psyche of people in Iraq , their situation, their security ,and their Stability.
America are thinking that it removed Saddam, but I I'll repeat this story, a mouse entered to a house, the owner of this house wanted to bring out this mouse by the cat, the cat caused problems and he wanted to bring it out by the dog , but the dog caused problems like the cat, then he wanted to bring it out by the elephant, but the elephant caused problems finally, he wanted to bring it out by the mouse.
-Patrick: how do you deal with this mouse?
Al-Sayed Muqtada: By using neither the cat nor the dog, but by national unity support one another, rejection of sectarianism, open-mindedness, having open ideas, and rejection of extremism; as a joke, we can take the mouse out of house by the lion.
-Patrick: you said, that the Iraqi person was affected by through the last twenty years because of the occupation and the Circumstances which people of Iraq suffered from , can you tell me more about this subject, and explain how the psyche of Iraqi people has affected?
- Al-Sayed Muqtada: the first thing, embroiling Iraq in wars, they change psyche of Iraqi people, because they will live a difficult life, because of Saddam and the occupation , from war to war, from the first gulf war to the second gulf war to war of the occupation to the resistance …etc. All these affected on Iraqi physiology, I read a report in Psychology or in the medicine, I do not know exactly, that the Airports must be far from houses of people, in order not to hear sound of plane, but the people in Iraq hear the sound of plane in the morning and hear the sound of bomb and sound of explosion in the evening.
-Patrick: what is the current situation of AL-Mahdi Army now, does it exist?
-Al-Sayed Muqtada: It is still existent but it is frozen, because the occupation is not there outwardly, if they will come back, then we will come back
-Patrick: / but it will not be frozen in other situations
-Al-Sayed Muqtada: if there is an occupation, then it will be non-frozen, if America likes to come back again, we also like to come back again.
-Patrick: but the security situation is good now without existence of America?
-Al-Sayed Muqtada: pardon!
-Patrick: it doesn't need the existence of AC-Mahdi army.
-Al-Sayed Muqtada: the security situation has deteriorated since the time that America entered Iraq until this day; I would like to say that the duty of AL-Mahdi Army is resisting of the occupation not imposing the security
-Patrick: However, in 2006 and 2007, the Mahdi Army participated in many acts of violence and murder.
-Al-Sayed Muqtada: I do not say that it is the Mahdi Army, involved elements (from outside) in the army of Imam Mahdi did that. But the Mahdi Army tried to protect the holy places, no more any less. If the army of Imam Mahdi participate in attacking Iraqis and in inflaming sectarianism that I will be first person who stand against it.
-Patrick: As it is clear that Kurdistan region has succeeded in extending of security and in development on the contrary to the other areas of Iraq, what is the reason?
-Al-Sayed Muqtada: the thefts are less.
-Patrick: is this the only reason?
-Al-Sayed Muqtada: maybe they love their nationalism, they love their country.
-Patrick: does this mean that they are national more than other people in Iraq?
-Al-Sayed Muqtada: they are national for their nationalism and they love Iraq too, therefore, they didn’t try to separate, until now.
-Patrick: Do you think that the Kurds will demand to be separated from Iraq?
-Al-Sayed Muqtada: yes, if they will face more elimination, they will demand for separation, Masood said to me "if AL- Maliki antagonizes us more, we will separate".
-Patrick: You have said that the American occupation or its effect had gone out but what do you think about the external effect like Iran & Saudi Arabia, it is still exist in Iraq and effect on it.
-Al-Sayed Muqtada: I see that many parties interfere in the Iraqi affairs like America, Iran and Saudi Arabia, some of the interference serve the Iraqi people and some of them do not serve, but we as Iraqi people refuse this interference whether it serves us or not, Iraqi fate should be determined by Iraqi themselves.
-Patrick: For which degree the Syrian crisis effects on the Iraqi situation and how can it inflame the feeling between Shia and Sunni in Iraq.
-Al-Sayed Muqtada: if Syria became a victim of strictness and violence, it will effect negatively on Iraq, the present situation in Syria effects on Iraq and will inflame the sectarianism in it, but if there are a moderate governments in Iraq and Syria which do not tend to strictness, the effect will be positive, we ask God to save Syria from this crisis.
-Patrick: What do you say to some Iraqi people who want to go to Syria to fight the Qa,eda and protect the holy shrines?

-Al-Sayed Muqtada: In fact I do not want to interfere in Syrian affair and only Syrian people should determine their fate, no one has the right to interfere in it.
-Patrick: But you said that the Syrian crisis effects on Iraq.
-Al-Sayed Muqtada: Yes it is, but don't interfere in their affair.
-Patrick: I can conclude from your speech that the future of Iraq is dark and if it is what we can do to save Iraq.
-Al-Sayed Muqtada: Invocation, working hard and hope.
-Patrick: Is there any tangible thing can we do to save the future of Iraq .
AL-Sayed Muqtada: Choose a paternal government to rule the country which works to serve the Iraqi people not to serve their chairs and posts.
-Patrick: thank you.
-Al-Sayed Muqtada: we wish it is not a final meeting, thank you.

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